.380 caliber ammo velocity comparisons with various pistols

[oldgranpa]

This thread is for those with chronographs to post their test results with .380 ammo. And .380 ammo only. Try to have at least 2 data points so you can do a rough average, etc. Be sure to note the pistol used, barrel length if you know it, ammo brand, grain weight, and type..JHP or FMJ, etc.

Just remember that oldgranpa is not smart like a Geico caveman so don't expect any miracle answers from me.

Hope everyone enjoys this thread. Nasty remarks will not be tolerated.

og

[oldgranpa]

OK, here's my first contribution using only a KelTec 2G P3AT. Tests made during the Smiley Tests last year....


Old chrony tests done with a 2G P3AT, one round at a time. Data was posted on the old site under the Smileys Revisited (ballistics section) at..
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5416&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
these are a few of the test results from that thread, 3 pages of notes.
Rem UMC 95gr FMJ
fresh ammo, no smiley, 814.6fps, 824.2fps, avg 819.4fps
rounds with smileys from 1G (no mod) feedramp, setback shown first
.050", 841.2fps
.060", 821.2fps
.0175", 820.6fps
.0085", 841.8fps average of 4 shots 832.2fps, increase over fresh ammo only 1.01%

rounds with smiley from 2G type feed ramp, setback shown first
.007", 794.3fps
.005", 800.8fps insignificant change.

Fed AmerEagle 95gr FMJ
fresh ammo, no smiley 819.1fps
with .022 setback, 872.1fps a 1.06% increase

Win USA 95gr FMJ flat nose
fresh ammo, no smiley, 809fps
ammo w/smileys, setback shown
.0045", 827.2fps
.010", 793.4fps max increase only 1.02%

Fed HydraShok 90gr JHP
fresh ammo, 871.6fps
round with a nick, .009" setback, 885.3fps 1.01%

P3AT readings...fps mean and SD shown. Where no SD, only 1 reading was made.

1. Rem GS 102gr JHP
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 856.3, 13.7

2. Fed HS 90gr JHP
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 861.0, 18.4 (and a previous test, 871.6fps)
b. a previous test in July, 2006, smiley .009"setback, 885.3fps

3. Speer GD, 90gr JHP
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 895.9, 6.5
b. 1G smiley round, .003"setback, 878.1

4. Fed AE 95gr FMJ
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 861.9, 14.1 (and a previous test, 819.1fps)
b. 1G smiley, .015" setback, 823.0 (and a previous test, smiley .022"setback, 872fps)

5. Rem UMC 95gr FMJ
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 875.0, 2.9 (and a previous test, 819.4fps different box!!)
b. 1G smileys, .027&.036"setback, 870.6, 26.6 (and a previous test, 832.2fps)

6. Win RangerT 95gr JHP
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 890.2, 1.5

7. Rem UMC/leadless, 95gr FNEB
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 894.3, 13.8

8. Geco 94gr FMJ
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 812.3, 20.9

9. S&B 92gr FMJ
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 840.3, 9.4

10. Independence 90gr FMJ
a. plain rounds, no smiley, 852.4, 28.1

11. Win SXT 95gr JHP
a. plain round, no smiley, 885.9
PTLNSC .380acp 1G Smileys, Chrony readings...

CorBon DPX 80gr copper
....plain, no smiley.... 1013 fps
....1G smiley, setback .009", .....1046fps

and a smiley made with my 2G P3AT,
....2G smiley, setback .004", .....1040fps


Rem GoldenSabr, 102gr
....plain, no smiley.....856fps and 860.3fps
....1G smiley, setback .005", .....826.6fps and 811.2fps


Win Ranger 95gr JHP
....plain, no smiley.....890.2, SD 1.5 from previous test
....1g smiley, setback .010", .....847.5fps

and 2 rounds of plain Win SXT 95gr....800.3fps and 845.3fps


base case, 2 rounds of UMC 95gr FMJ,
....plain, no smiley,......896.2fps
....2G smiley, ............905.5fps


I know the Chrony readings look funny, but that's what you get with factory ammo, not consistent from one lot to the next. I think that causes different results in wetpack tests too. For the plain, no smiley tests, I used some of my ammo, a different lot from what PTLNSC sent me. The only velocities that went up with setback were with the DPX ammo and the UMC from the same lot. The Chrony was working fine. Having a Chrony is one of the most fun things you can do.

OK, guys, now it's your turn. Go buy yourself a Chrony, best money you'll spend this year.

og

[oldgranpa]

In case you missed it, here are chrony readings with a NAA Guardian 380 pistol made during the wetpack tests just posted...

1 Corbon DPX 80gr copper bullet
2 Corbon 90gr JHP
3 Federa HydraShok 90gr JHP
4 Remington GoldenSabr 102gr JHP
5 Speer GoldDot 90gr JHP
6 Winchester SXT 95gr JHP

Some velocity readings with my Chrony....use legend above...
1 1130fps
2 no reading
3 959.2fps
4 897.6fps
5 no reading
6 no reading

FMJ's...UMC 918.2, 962.4, 960.4fps and Fed AmerEagle 982.6fps
Cheers,
og

[twoguns]

Howdy folks,

I can offer some information of various .380s fired from my buddy's Walther PPK/S during our first desert session with my chrongograph.

[oldgranpa]

superb data, twoguns. Slowly we will acquire an excellent data base for the .380. (If I can ever get past my spring yard work , I'll do a few more tests.)
og

[Norfdet]

OG, have you done any testing with the Speer GDHP "SB" round in .380?

[oldgranpa]

Norf,
checking Speer's ammo sites, both standard and LEO, I do not find SB (short barrel) GoldDot ammo for .380acp.

http://le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=2&page=pages/ccispeer/ccispeer_GoldDot.asp

Only SB shown is for other calibers, like 38special new 135gr+p round.

So all I have ever tested in .380 is just the plain 90gr JHP .380 round.

I've never been a big fan of Speer ammo for centerfire pistols. That's because several years ago when I got interested in ammo testing, I was biased towards expansion rather than penetration. Speer GoldDot ammo always had less expansion than other stuff. Now, based on better self defense information we know that penetration should be formost on our choice of ammo. And if we can have both expansion and good penetration, then we have found better ammo, of course only if it shoots reliably in our handgun.

For that reason I found the Remington GoldenSabr ammo to be a top choice in .380. Even our recent tests with CorBon's new DPX shows the old Rem GS still my top choice.

Now, granted, Speer makes good stuff and GoldDot always gets better penetration than the others, with some sacrifice in expansion. It's only in .32acp that GoldDot fails to be reliable, but I've given up on .32 a long time ago anyway. (IMHO .32 is obsolete!! You heard it here first!! )

With that little bit of trivia I'll let you tell me if you know something new and maybe Speer has a new SB in .380 that doesn't show on their ammo site. I'll also ask my gunshop if they've heard of it.

og........always ready to learn something new

edit:

And here is a little trivia on the history of who designed the popular JHP rounds we have today, from this article...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_146_24/ai_61861512


which gives the following excerpt, talking about .45acp.....

Federal's hot 185 gr. +P Hydra-Shok leaves the muzzle at around 1,140 fps and has a flat trajectory if you think you might need to fire at long range. Tom Burczynski's Hydra-Shok projectile has long been street-proven in many calibers. All five shots went into 2.25". The best three shots were in a cluster measuring only 1.25".
Remington's Golden Saber load has a different bullet design, one by Dave Schluckebier, but similar ballistics to the Hydra-Shok above. In its 185 gr. +P version, the Saber sliced five shots into 2.75', its best three in 1.25".
Speer's Gold Dot is another high tech bullet design. The ones I've seen pulled out of human flesh have expanded nicely unless they just skimmed the edge of the body. Five 230 gr. Gold Dots went into 2.187", and the best three in only 1.25".
John Koppel at Pro-Load honks the same 230 gr. Gold Dot projectile up by around 100 fps to +P velocity in his new tactical round. The Pro-Load Tactical delivered five shots in 2.063", the best three into an 1.375".
Rounding out the high-tech loads, PMC, with the Burczynski-designed 230 gr. Starfire, at standard pressure, delivered the best accuracy of these "super bullet" loads: 1.75" for all five, and the best three in .875". Remember, this was 25 yard shooting.

Of course this info is a little off topic for the intent of this thread, but since Norf and I got on the subject of GoldDot ammo, I wanted to add this so everyone would be aware that there is a difference in design philosopy with various brands of ammo. It is a very competitive world.
og

[oldgranpa]

Took a few hours break from yard work to do a few Chrony reading with 380 pistols. Just a quick spreadsheet shown below with average readings. Barrel lengths of the pistols are as follows..
P232 is 3.6"
Bersa CC is 3.2"
KT P3AT is 2.7"
NAA 380 is 2.5"

You will note a few anomalies which have no real good explanation other than factory ammo is not "match" ammo and no 2 cartridges are going to be the same. Why different handguns show a few anomalies might be due to difference in rifling, etc.
Anyway, a trend was shown for longer barrels to get higher velocity as would be expected.
Readings with the NAA 380 were not finished since the trigger broke. Called the factory and they're sending me a new trigger, no charge, and I can install it myself. Not nice to happen but no handgun is perfect. The other 3 pistols had no malfunctions with any ammo.

Maybe later I can take everybody's readings and put them in some sort of graph by barrel length, which is what we are really trying to compare here.

Cheers,
og

[mr surveyor]

Thanks OG

Looks like the KT P3AT gave the Bersa a run for the money, considering giving up a half inch in barrel. I suppose my Speer GD's are still in the mid range of velocity, but having looked at some of your wet pack tests, I'm not convinced of the expansion.

By the way, how do you like the Bersa CC now that you've had some time with it?

surv

[oldgranpa]

OK, surv,
it does look like the P3AT is a formidable choice for a CCW. No wonder police everywhere are getting one for backup. On several of the ammo brands the P3AT only lost a little velocity but not enough to slow it down for good expansion and penetration, as shown by many wetpack tests we've done. Best choice if you need a small, extra light pistol to hide in the pocket.
The only drawback for the P3AT is the trigger pull. Of the four handguns, the P3AT trigger is the worst. Really hurts my trigger finger when it fires. I'll have to find a better way to cushion it.
The best trigger of the four is the Bersa 380 CC, smooth, light pull, no hurt at all. Oddly enough, the Sig P232 seems to show recoil more than it should for an all metal pistol.
The NAA 380 has a better trigger, shorter pull and less recoil effect than the P3AT, that is until it broke. Looks like one of those MIM (metal injection molding) parts we hear about that are really cast metal and can break. I hope the replacement trigger they send me is better. The NAA is heavier than the P3AT so not the best choice for a hide in the pocket pistol.
But, to answer your question, surv, if I could only have one 380 pistol, right now the Bersa 380 CC (concealed carry) model would be my choice.

og

comment, if you have an extra $100 and the time, a Chrony is the best thing you could buy this year. Really great fun and tells more about ammo than anything I know. twoguns thinks so!!

[xcop]

Thanks for the chrono tests. I sometimes carry a P230 and wondered about the DPX.

[oldgranpa]

welcome to USR, xcop

yes, the DPX does a good job in .380acp.  Be sure to check the wetpack test reports here for expansion/penetration results as well.

Both DPX and Rem GoldenSabr do a good job in 380.

Cheers,
og

[twoguns]

Howdy Mr. OG,

Yes sir, I am sold on chornographs now for sure  .  After our first session my reaction was much like my first set of Trijicon nightsights.  I kept wondering why I had waited so long to get one.

They do add a new dimension to not only shooting but in reloading as well.  Now I have a much more accurate gauge of how my rounds compare against the factory loads they are intended to duplicate.

twoguns

[oldgranpa]

hi, twoguns,
the chrony is a great way to spend some range time. When I get the chance, I plan to repeat the Bersa v.s. KelTec in .380 with the chrony. The anomolies I got the first time are strange. The only thing I can base it on is the difference in the pistols, the Bersa being blowback and the KelTec locked breech. It's hard to believe that the locked breech would increase chamber pressure enough to up the velocity over a slightly longer blowback barrel.
Hope to find out next range trip.
Cheers,
og

(Oh, P.S. I traded the P232 and the NAA380 in on the new Sig I'm getting. So no more chrony tests with those 2 pistols. Had way too many 380's anyway.)