New info at Goldenloki for Hornady Critical Defense .380 round

[Preacherman]

Goldenloki has added some new info about the new Hornady Critical Defense round in .380.  (New to me, anyway!)

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

Looks good, for the p3at, etc. if you can find it to buy it, and if it cycles reliably.

[oldgranpa]

I can't find any around here or online. Maybe I'll find some oneday and can do a few tests to compare. Hornady stuff usually has good penetration but lower expansion than others. That seemed to be the case with GL's test also.

[oldgranpa]

Wowzers and Yoiks!!  Reports are showing up on several sites like the 1911 forum and KTOG noting that the new Hornady Critical Defense ammo has numerous failures to fire. Not light strikes either as pictures show heavy dents in the primers.
So far, Hornady has refused to admit anything wrong and blames it on the pistol used! Even when everything else fires good with the pistols being used.
We've heard one reason for the 'ammo shortage' is availablity of primers. So it looks like maybe Hornady got some primers 'made in China'

Anyway, I'm glad now I couldn't find any to test. And so, now, I've crossed Hornday off my list!!

Whatever, FWIW,
og

[oldgranpa]

More wowzers on the new Hornady ammo by the famous and most arrogant web gunsmith....

http://tjofsugarland.blogspot.com/2009/11/hornady-critical-defense-ammo.html

Looks like my fears were right, foreign primers.!!

You're on your own if you buy new Hornady ammo.

I wonder how many other ammo companies are using foreign primers?  Not good news.

og

[Preacherman]

Teddy is a hoot, but he knows a lot.
I still think FMJ is the real ticket for .380 hand guns.
FMJ feeds easily, and penetrates enough.

[oldgranpa]

True! Just bought a box of Winchester White Box ValuPak 95gr FMJ flat nose at WalMart! They had 2 boxes on shelf. Could be old ammo in stock they put out just for Christmas. It looks like stuff they had last year. I doubt Winchester is shipping again, but maybe.
og

[Bobo]

Rimless 'rimmed' cartridges...

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/tips/1978982-Safety-tip-for-range-ammo-Check-the-rims/

If this keeps up there might be some humdinger law suits in the wind!

Bobo

[twoguns]

Howdy Mr. Bobo,

While it is not that common, I have had similar issues with duty ammo over the decades.  But when compared to the number of factory rounds I have had on various ranges, the "issues" were statistically very small.  I can not recall having this specific problem before.  But I have had duty rounds that were loaded with crushed primers (that would not detonate), primers seated backwards, no primers, no powder, and with JHP bullets seated into the case backwards.

While it is true that in each case quality control missed these issues, as I routinely preached to my coworkers - "you are the final quality control check for your duty ammo".  I told them to inspect each round before loading into their cylinders or magazines, and if the round did not look right, not to use it.

These issues were not restricted to only one manufacturer.  Over nearly 4 decades my various departments/agencies purchased duty ammo from Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester (listed alphabetically).  The total number of duty rounds involved I can only estimate at easily over 15 milllion (yes, that is an M, lol), perhaps over 20 milllion rounds.  The number of issue rounds would be less than 50 all total, over 40 years.  So when you do the math (beyond me without a calculator), the percentage is extremely slight.

I would simply use this Speer situation as a good reminder, that regardless of whether it is duty ammo, self-defense loads, or even practice ammo - we, each shooter, is the final quality control in the process.  Personally I am a bit disappointed a tactical officer did not catch that and point the defective round out to the range master.  But he obviously was not inspecting his ammo before loading it, as he should have been doing.

To me a manufacturer who is using primers that will not detonate when fired in weapons normally encountered in the US, that is a different matter to me.  We don't know what brand of foreign primers they are using, but foreign ammo has always been notorious for having hard primers, some that only firearms made in Europe (etc, ie - designed to fire such primers routinely) would reliably, consistently detonate.  That is a much more serious quality control issue in my view. 

If a company is going to use a hard primer, they should test fire rounds in a huge selection of firearms, to insure that each will cause the primer to go off consistently, without modification to the weapon platform.  That situation really bothers me, much more than the lack of a rim on that case does.

Just my thoughts,

twoguns

[oldgranpa]

agreed, twoguns, and that is also why reloading is such a good idea. We can usually find good primers, powder, bullets, and inspect our cases ourself. I only reload my 8mm Mauser ammo anymore and have a fair supply of CCI primers I bought a good while back. At a friends range last week, we did some 100yds shooting, and all my rounds went bang with good groups on the targets. Not so with factory ammo. Lately, my chrony tests show velocity is all over the place out of the same box with many of the brands available.

So, it's not just funny-farm primers, or ridiculous rimmless rounds, quality control is lousy on powder control as well. And not too long ago I posted a report on severe bullet pull with MagTech .357magnum ammo. Apparently no crimp on the stuff at all. What kind of illegal alien idiots are making this junk??

So, twoguns' advice is well taken. Good idea to inspect each box and test fire some of it before trying to carry it for selfdefense.

Otherwise we might end up like the funny picture with the toe tag in Teddy's blog spot!!

Horray!

og

[EJKaye]

So, it's not just funny-farm primers, or ridiculous rimmless rounds, quality control is lousy on powder control as well. And not too long ago I posted a report on severe bullet pull with MagTech .357magnum ammo. Apparently no crimp on the stuff at all. What kind of illegal alien idiots are making this junk??

The MagTech is Brazilian made. Somehow, I doubt that Brazil has the illegal alien problems that we do!   

[oldgranpa]

true, nobody in Brazil is "illegal" since the country is made up of dozens of different ethnic groups plus original 'indian' tribes. Entry into Brazil, according to Wikipedia, is no problem, so there's no such thing there as an illegal alien. Trying to govern such a wide variety of people is a big problem and that's why they have such a high crime rate. There aren't as many regulations either for businesses and no such thing as a SAAMI code for ammunition made there. Therefore, it's hard for the USA to regulate ammo being imported. One thing I note about MagTech ammo is it's usually longer in OAL than the same type made in the USA. Some have reported FTF's as a result.

Anyway, whatever!  I guess if it shoots good, without malfunctions, who cares. But crap is crap and more and more of it is showing up.

Cheers,
og

[EJKaye]

I have bought magtech 9mm in the past, before I started reloading.  Mostly it worked okay, but I would have a FTFire on occasion & it was not match grade by any means. 

Now that I am reloading, I can say one thing: They do use very tough brass.  It is much harder to resize, flare and crimp.  I think that this is the reason that they have the bullet seating and dislodging issues that you saw.  On my 44 Mag loads with CBC (magtech) brass, I have to use a very heavy crimp to keep the bullets in place, even with relatively light loads and lighter bullets.