Wetpacks with DPX AND ALSO BUFFALO BORE!!

[oldgranpa]

With all of the new .380 pistols appearing on the market, I felt another test, looking at penetration, might be useful.
And another main purposes of this test was also to do a better test of CorBon DPX with the Kahr P380 since only 2 rounds of old DPX was available during the last test in Oct. 2009.
I compared DPX with Speer GoldDot ammo and some Winchester Ranger. One round of Rem GoldenSabr with the P380 was also shot into the wetpack. Picture 1 shows ammo used in this test. The Speer GoldDot is new bonded ammo now available in a 50 round box.

The next picture shows the wetpack results. Chrony tests were also done this time.
It is interesting to compare these results with a test that f&s and I did back in 2006 shown in this link....

http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=318.0

Average of Chrony readings with .380 ammo today.....9ft. with screens, blue sky, 62F...(compare to previous chart)...

P380
FMJ, 833fps   GoldDot, 936fps    Ranger, 912fps   DPX, 980fps   RemGS, 808fps   

P3AT
FMJ, 878fps   GoldDot, 965fps    Ranger, 916fps   DPX, 967fps   RemGS, 895fps

It's hard to explain the differences. Even the Chrony readings show the variation you get with factory ammo. I do note that the CorBon DPX seems to need better velocity than a short 2.5" or 2" barrel provides. Therefore, DPX does not look like a good carry choice for the P380 or similar short barrel pistols. Sure, it got good penetration, but expansion was not as expected to justify the higher price. Out of longer barrels, like the P3AT, it seems to do better. And note, again, that Rem GoldenSabr still performs. So don't throw your GS away yet!!  And of course, it you like the vicious talon on the Ranger bullet, that might do some hurt!! (Not quite good enough penetration with the Ranger to recommend it, however!)

Soooo....If I have to draw any conclusion for this, and previous tests, IMHO the clear winner appears to be Speer GoldDot 90gr JHP for .380 SD carry. Excellent penetration with fair expansion makes it a better choice than just plain FMJ. Which in this test at least, the FMJ "over penetrated" and could hurt someone in a SD situation. Just my opinion and with my usual disclaimer that neither I or USR are responsible for your use of these reports to decide what to carry in your pistol.

{Why wasn't DoubleTap and Buffalo Bore included??  As I've said before it's not my policy, or USR, to use any +p 380 ammo in pistols available today. When SAAMI approves it and someone makes a pistol certified for +p 380, then, and only then, will we consider it. (Besides, in my previous tests, DT was no better than plain Speer GoldDot.)}

Cheers,
og



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[twoguns]

Howdy Mr. OG,

As usual sir, thank you for the time and effort required to provide such a definitive report.

Frankly, I was pleasantly surprised to see the expansion you obtained with many of these rounds in both pistols.  I was not expecting such reliable expansion, given how short their barrels were.

twoguns

[oldgranpa]

thanks, twoguns, for your reply. Yes, it does appear that the newer .380 JHP ammo being offered (like Speer's bonded GoldDot) has been designed for the short barrel pocket pistols. Even the 2.5" barrel Kahr P380 gets expansion with most factory hollow point ammo. Except for the CorBon DPX which only partially expanded. And even in the P3AT, the DPX opened but did not fold back like the other hollow point stuff. I don't think I'll recommend DPX for the .380; price too high anyway.

While taking the wetpack apart, it's obvious that expansion begins immediately, producing a lot of distruption. Attached picture shows enlarged holes just 2" into the pack. IMO, that means a lot of tissue damage and bleeding is going to occur. Old ballistic articles refer to this as the temporary cavity, which maybe applies fine to FMJ bullets. But I don't see anything "temporary" about it with JHP ammo, especially something like the Winchester Ranger with the sharp talons on the jacket!!.
No Hornady CD ammo available for comparison so couldn't include that. Some bad reports with misfires with Hornady CD, poor primers probably, so I'm not anxious to test that anyway.

I realize this was a test with a "bare" wetpack and denim cover will change the results. Probably less expansion and more penetration. But bare wetpacks is what we've always used for equal comparisons. Wetpack tests are fun to do.


Getting too old for this now.  So it's time for others to continue tests like this in the future.

Cheers,
og

[Preacherman]

Thanks, OG!

One reason I stick with FMJ is that (so I have read, not from experience) if you are forced to shoot a bad guy, you may often be shooting through a hand, an arm, whatever, before the round actually strikes the body.  Therefore, some extra penetration will be to the good.  Of course you are absolutely right about the dangers of over penetration, and people need to take heed about who or what is behind the fellow they are shooting at. 

[Bobo]

Another great test and report!!

Thanks!


Bobo

[oldgranpa]

thanks Bobo, and BTW, the laser on the P380 sure made it easy to place the shots into the wetpack without overlapping any of the P3AT holes. Knew you'd like to hear that. Everybody should consider getting a laser for their pocket gun. The short barrel is just too hard to get good aim with the tiny sights. I shot the P3AT into the pack first, no laser, then the P380. Perfect! (nearly )

And hi, Marshall. I know you are set on FMJ for ensured penetration. But hope you won't have to shoot a villian from the side, thru an arm, etc. Most encounters, per reports, for us civilians should be close up frontal shots. The Speer GoldDot ammo is available in 50 round boxes from AmmunitionToGo.com for about same price as the 20 rd DPX. Try some, good stuff. Recoil like FMJ.

And, hey! Taking a wetpack apart to recover the bullets is as much fun as shooting, maybe more.
Here's one last picture of this wetpack at about 7.5" to 8" into the pack with the first bullets showing.

og

[oldgranpa]

April 23, 2010 wetpack & Chrony test of Buffalo Bore .380 "Std. Pressure" 90gr JHP ammo.by oldgranpa.  

The wetpack was done with both the P3AT and P380 pistols. Two rounds of Buffalo Bore (BB) were shot and 1 round of the other ammo in the picture. (14 rounds in all is max. for a wetpack). The BB was a surprise with large expansion. Appears to be softer lead than was expected since the bullet looked like the CorBon 90gr ammo that did not expand in previous tests. So the BB bullet is certainly not like CorBon. But the large expansion acted like a parachute, even with the higher velocity,. and slowed penetration to a bare min. 8" (equiv. to 12"gel) with the P3AT and only 7 1/2" with the Kahr P380. With penetration now being a bit more important than expansion, the other ammo included in the test did better. (Except for the lack of expansion of the DPX with the P3AT.) Ammo that does not expand in my wetpack tests cannot be considered totally reliable for the price you have to pay. Even the Rem GoldenSabr performed well, as it did in the previous test where we compared DPX the first time. See the previous picture in this thread with the DPX wetpack for a comparison. Fed HydraShok used is packaged as their PD, personal defense ammo. I used a 1/2" plywood backing this time to stop the FMJ. Both rounds were imbedded in the plywood showing again that overpenetration is possible with FMJ.

Chrony tests were done today also. Temp 70, sunny, used the screens, 10 feet distance.

P3AT results...BB 992.4, 1005fps...GD 952.0fps...Fed HS 896.6, 931.2fps...Rem GS 837.3fps....Win FMJ 826.1fps

P380 results...BB 1029, 1003fps....GD 940.0fps...Fed HS 932.9, 936.8fps...Rem GS 841.4fps.....Win FMJ 811.4fps

factory ammo always shows variations and so do pistols due to different barrel rifling. If you like large expansion with a bit less penetration, the Buffalo Bore "Std. Pressure" ammo appears to be pretty good.

With this final .380 test, I will be able to post a rating for .380 ammo using data from numerous tests over the past several years. Look for it here in the Ammo & Ballistics section.

Cheers,
og

[Preacherman]

Excellent photo and measurements, OG.  Thanks a heap!

[flyandscuba]

Impressive results!

[Bobo]

Great job as always - thanks!!!

Bobo

[fastgun for hire]

Thank you sir!!

You have helped me a lot with your information. It seems that my reading has consistantly
pointed to the Hydra Shok as being a top level round in the .380.

They usually rank at or near the top in most tests in velocity, penetration and expansion.

Even though there are various views about Marshal and Sanow, they also said the Hydra Shok
was one of the best rounds.

Hydra Shok, Gold Dot or Golden Saber will be in my .380. 

[Norfdet]

Thanks again OG, outstanding work as usual. I guess my decision to stay with the Remington GS 102gr .380 all these years has paid off. It was interesting to see how well it expanded in the P3AT and in most cases the ammo shot out of the P3AT seemed to slightly edge out that of the Kahr. I have a box of Speer GDHP that I am thinking about using in my AT this summer as I can't seem to find any Remington locally. Now that the weather is warming up my AT is seeing more use.

[oldgranpa]

Norf, thanks for your thoughts on the Rem GS. It has never failed to expand in my wetpacks. Even back 5 years ago when I only soaked the wetpack 24 hours. As I've noted over the past several years, I now soak the wetpack 48 hours which gives a better comparison with gelatin. The GS penetrates good too.
Hope you also looked at the ratings lists of 380 ammo also....
http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=4116.0
I also posted that at KTOG for the P3AT owners there and the comments were excellent.
Anyway, I also carry Rem GS in my P380 along with some Win Ranger and Fed HS. Second mag has DPX and BB Std.Pressure.
Speer GD is fine too.
380 might not be the best for primary carry but it sure fits the pocket better than anything else.
og

[Norfdet]

380 might not be the best for primary carry but it sure fits the pocket better than anything else.
og

Hey, remember the first rule of a gunfight.......have a gun! While the 380 would never be my first choice, my P3AT does allow me to "always" have something.