Buffalo Bore "Standard Pressure", what the heck??

[oldgranpa]

Just got the box of .380 90gr JHP Buffalo Bore "Standard Pressure" that I ordered. 20 rounds, it came in a box they must use for some kind of 50cal ammo. I guess they use the same box for everything. But would you give your size 12 shoes to your 5yr old to wear??

Then I inspected the rounds. Case head is marked with 2 small stars separated with a dash, kinda like this but smaller.....  +--+  Now this is the same case head marking being used by CorBon on their DPX ammo I received a few weeks ago. So what's the deal? Are these people using brass from the same source or what??  Then the bullet. It's sure not a GoldDot but has a fairly large, deep cavity by comparison. Kinda looks like the old CorBon 90gr JHP bullet. You don't suppose they make ammo in the same place for both??

Won't get to try it for a week or so. But sure looks fishy to me!!

og....ripped off again!!

[flyandscuba]

OG,

It sounds like they are using Starline brass.  It is used by several custom loaders -- and is excellent brass.

http://www.starlinebrass.com/

[oldgranpa]

thanks fly, glad to know that. Now, maybe somebody knows what kind of bullet they use.

og

[EJKaye]

Yep - that's Straline.   Quality brass - I use it on my 454 Casull, and it's holding up nicely!

[twoguns]

Howdy Mr. OG,

I agree with the others first on the brass.  It is Starline, and in my opinion they make excellent brass.  When I am buying brass to reload new round with, Starline is the brand I buy.

As far as the JHP bullet being used in the standard pressure loading, you have me a bit stumped sir.  I did a web search and found their site.  They only list one load in .380acp as being standard pressure on their site, and that one is a cast lead bullet, not a JHP.  The only JHP I could find they offered in that caliber was a 90 gr in a +P, and according to the picture of the box endflap, it uses a Speer Gold Dot bullet.  Nothing in their specs named the bullet, the picture of the endflap of the box did specify 90gr Gold Dot.

So I reckon that would be my best guess, but it is only that, since the one JHP round their site listed in .380 was NOT a standard pressure load.

twoguns

[whkento]

Well, at least you know they're using good quality brass.  Sorry I can't add anything about the bullets they use.  I'm guessing that they're a relatively small company, so they're using the same kind of boxes when they can.

Looking forward to another range report.   

[oldgranpa]

on another site, KTOG I think, the bullet was felt to be same one CorBon uses for their 90gr JHP. I used some .380 CorBon 90gr JHP in wetpack tests with a P3AT several years ago and it didn't expand. So if it's the same bullet, 'bummer', and it may be no good in a short barrel 380 pistol. It did expand with a longer barrel Bersa, 3.5"barrel.  Check this link....... six years ago!!

http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=301.0

As far as using "one box fits all", that is just stupid and poor marketing. Might as well just ship it in a paper bag.

FWIW,
og

[Preacherman]

You see now, OG, if you would just stick with FMJ you wouldn't have all this frustration!

Just kidding you! 

[oldgranpa]

Yup! it is frustrating searching for the 'magic bullet' all these years and still not finding it. For the 380 that is. But reading a few police reports that are available, there still is no 'magic bullet' in any handgun caliber. Except maybe .50 caliber. Few people are able to CCW .50cal anyway. It still takes multiple shots, even by police, to stop a criminal.

However, we are close to being able to rate several .380 brands for best performance. Maybe even good enough for use as a primary carry. But mostly for good backup that police might want to use. Both good penetration and expansion will be required. Mainly good penetration, equal or more than the 12" FBI criteria. But not over penetration. That's why I'm afraid FMJ in a .380 could hurt or kill and innocent person during a real SD situation. Especially in a crowd, like at church.

In the meantime, don't hold your breath waiting for my next wetpack test results. The truth is, I'm still saving newspaper to make the pack. Probably next week at soonest. Three main bullets will be GoldDot, HydraShok, and the BB "Std.Pressure" rounds. Already know GoldDot does good but will include it so we can compare. (No Hornady, too many bad reports on that stuff!!)

Cheers,
og...have box, water, etc., need more paper

[flyandscuba]

I think that the Gold Dot, Golden Saber, or the DPX load will serve well in a .380 pistol based upon our previous tests.  If it is exceptional penetration you want -- I still have a few boxes of the +P+ Santa Barbara (South American Police loads) left in the closet...

[oldgranpa]

Oh wow! What to do with the Santa Barbra stuff....put add on the LCP forum..."free Santa Barbra ammo for your LCP, just pay shipping!!"

Can't think of a better place for it. Might have some really good kaboom reports!!

It worked in the SeeCamp without a kaboom since the LSW380 is a well built pistol. But not for the P3AT or P380. (don't let Marshall have it!)

Probably hotter than BuffaloBore +p ammo.

As to why penetration seems more important now than it did several years ago. I never used to see all the "monsters" around like I do now. At least 15" thru the COM!! (Used to be 9" avg.)  (Preacherman's FMJ might even slow down enough in one of them monsters to avoid overpenetration! )  Even the FBI 12" rule (8" wetpack min.) seems low anymore. So wetpack penetration of 8" is more desired now than before. GoldenSaber gets 7 to 7+ inches but hardly ever 8" and might not be good enough anymore. Good argument. The better stuff is now approaching 9" wetpack.

DPX looks very good too except not full expansion in the shorter barrel P380. For the high price I would expect better. So DPX would not be first on my list unless they drop the price.

Whatever we decide on for the 380, most police are not going to agree it's OK for primary carry. Even though it's my primary carry "church" gun. J-frame for me everywhere else!!

og

[Preacherman]

Has anyone ever had a Santa Barbera kaboom in a p3at?  Just curious.

[flyandscuba]

Not a KaBoom -- but Marty at Kel-tec had to swap out my frame on a P3AT after I used it due to severe peening and galling of the frame rails...  It would work exceptionally well in the larger .380 pistols -- like a Sig 232, Bersa, BrowningBDA/Beretta, etc.

[EJKaye]

Is the SB ammo meant for submachine guns?   I remember seeing a bunch of Hirtenberger ammo that was meant for SubGuns, and reportedly it was quite hot!

[oldgranpa]

The Buffalo Bore wetpack test is in the Ammo & Ballistics wetpack section as part of the DPX test.

http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=4055.0


anyway, the BB was a nice surprise! Not the same bullet as CorBon. And no bulging of the cartridge cases. Plus both pistols performed perfect, no malfunctions at all!!