Simulated "Bone" Wetpack for Sternum

[oldgranpa]

Wanted!!

Someone to do the simulated sternum bone test with .32acp caliber. Just shoot some .32 FMJ and JHP rounds of your choosing at a piece of 3/4" plywood and let us know the results. You don't need a wetpack behind it. I don't have any 32's anymore to do the comparison.

Also, flyandscuba, if you read this, could you do the test with your Seecamp 380?

Haven't heard anymore from Mr. Cobb. Hope he still plans to try the test.

og

[markster]

I don't have 3/4 plywood but what I do have is 1 1/8" salt treated plywood  and both 71gr PMC FMJ and 71gr Magtech JHP go thru no problem!

[markster]

I could do a test and see whether 454 Casull goes thru the same wood. I'm having a feeling it would go thru that thickness at least 3 times.

[markster]

agreed!! get the new Bersa 380 "concealed carry" pistol if you can find one. Really, the best trigger on any 380 I own. Shoots straight too. Check my report in semi-autos.
og

I happened upon a Bersa 380 CC the other day, I don't remember the price but I think it was around $250. I didn't handle it, I was really looking for something else but never found it.

[markster]

Hey OG,have you seen that I did your test???   

[oldgranpa]

markster,

But did you do it with a KelTec P32?  And did you use the "certified" 3/4" plywood to compare exactly with previous tests? And what other exact ammo brands, grain bullets can you use (like Silvertip and Golddot)? Did you make any effort to "catch" the bullets either with a water tub or wetpack to see what they look like? And are you going to photograph any of the results to show here?

I know it sounds silly to expect the test to match previous directions, but scientific tests have to be "scientific"

We like things to be "Mythbuster" quality here

og........still waiting for some "complete", "scientific" data both on the P32 and the SeeCamp 380.

[markster]

Yes, it was a KT P32, I used Magtech and PMC. It went thru a 1 1/8" piece of marine grade plywood so it would go thru your 3/4 piece. The bullets are still in the ground about 8" deep I would guess. You said I didn't need wetpack but if you're going to boo boo my little test, I won't do any more.

[oldgranpa]

Oh, I believe your test alright. Just would be nice if we were all on the same page.

og

[JTL]

Great photo's.
One thing you must keep in mind is human bone is harder and  less elastic than wood when you are talking high velocity trauma.
A hollow point  pistol bullet of let say the 90 to 102 gr range at a velocity of around 700 to 850 fps is not reliably going to penatrate bone in comparison to wood and failure to expand is likley.
A hit dead center in the bone plate of the thorax however with the above mentioned loads will cause a slight splintering effect greatly increasing your wounding potential.
The above rounds would reach the rear of the thorax cavity without much expansion.
Hard ball in the above rounds and multiple hits is the key in this case.
Increased velocity to 900 or higher at impact and hollow points then come into there own

[oldgranpa]

hello, JTL, and yes the hardness, etc. of the sternum bone was taken into account in doing this test. That is the reason 3/4" plywood was chosen to simulate the sternum which varies from only 1/8 to 1/4" thichness. Note, we said simulate, since only the real bone would provide a true test.
As I've noted before, anyone that can provide a real  sternum bone would be welcome

There were a number of calculations that went into the choice of 3/4" plywood. Actually this idea began on another web site by qualified LEO members and the  calculated numbers were never put here, only the test results. USRange provides a better way of recording these test than other sites, the main reason I post the results and pictures here.

However, we welcome actual test results by anyone that has a better method to suggest. Otherwise, test results here are really for comparative information and if you go back into the old reports, you'll find we never said any of our wetpack tests were "certified", "FBI approved", or anything like that.

Therefore, the simulated bone test only gives some comparative info on the few rounds we tested.
But I would trust the rounds that actually penetrated to do the job.

No one here or on any other firearms site I frequent knows it all. I avoid the siites where "know it all" folks try to dominate the subjects. So I like it best when folks preface their posts with something like...in my opinion...etc.

And for the above reasons, I consider all posts here just opinions, nothing more..

Cheers,
og........who is usually full of opinions

[JTL]

You are right
Newbie mistake.
My opinion is all I have to offer at this time and will clarify as needed.
Im retired form a security firm in N. Carolina witch is currently involved with overseas operations.
My role has been as an adviser in small arms and ballistics testing.
Your testing is what brought me to this forum.
I appreciate your testing and the the dialog witch it brings.
I only offer suggestions witch I hope breed more suggestion and continued testing
With that said, I would suggest using white ash. It has shown a more realistic density and splinter effect to humane bone.
Thank you for yout input it is greatly appreciated.

[acandkay]

At what distance were the test done? I am blind and probably did not see it. thanks

[5150]

I was wondering if any chrono's were taken to show velocity during testing of the various rounds?

[Norfdet]

I don't think that OG does much chrono testing, we all pretty much take the word of the manufacturer as to what advertised velocities of rounds are.

[5150]

Ok.
I was wondering what the velocity differance in .380 would be with a short barrel Keltec vs the posted velocitys form the bullet makers.
I think 900 fps is the standard .380 vel. with a 3.5 inch barrel
I would guess it to be around 700 - 800 with a 2